Nigeria’s Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Professor Viola Onwuliri, was at a forum hosted by the Nigerian Diaspora Organization (NIDO) at the Chicago South Loop Hotel, Chicago, IL, USA last weekend. In this interview with sharpedgenews.com, Mrs Onwuliri responded to questions on a myriad of issues affecting the state of the Nigerian federation, including the events surrounding the recent removal of fuel subsidy and the security threats posed by the outlawed Islamic group, Boko Haram. She spoke with our editor-in-chief, Oladimeji Abitogun.
EXCERPTS:
First of all, you must agree that these must be trying times for the government in which you serve. Nigerians are on the street protesting fuel subsidies removal, you people look helpless in the face of Boko Haram targeted murders, and defenseless Nigerians are being shot for protesting. What does the government of our country want us to take away from all these?
The leadership of Nigeria is under the able leadership of President Goodluck Jonathan, a credible academic and an administrator per excellence. You would want to remember that Nigeria is a democracy, and freedom of expression, free speech, is part of democracy. And I want to tell you that the president believes in democracy, he also believes that Nigerians have the right to express their views. He has told the security agencies, the inspector-general of police; that they should take care of everybody, those protesting and those not protesting. Those who want to go to work must be protected, those want to be on the street would also be protected, provided they are law-abiding and provided that they do not go disturbing public peace, and their respect for others and properties and life means.
And so the issue of the fuel subsidy that the government has put across has not gone well with some people. And labor, particularly, did not find it funny and they are engaging with government, they are negotiating and they we want to believe that at the end of it all, they would reach a common ground and life would go on.
Do you know of anybody that is responsible for giving the shoot-on-sight directive against defenseless Nigerians?
There is nothing like shoot-at-sight. People are expressing their views on government policies, so the government wouldn’t have and did not order any shoot-at-sight. Who are you going to shoot?
Any regrets from your government concerning the news of killings so far?
You exaggerate this thing about K-I-L-L-I-N-G-S, as if there are killings. What has been happening now in some sections of the media is that anybody that dies in Nigeria is being reported as if someone killed him or her.
Honorable Minister, maybe we should not be in denial..
A: I am not denying, but the way you are talking about killings, it sounds like there has been a massacre. That is what I am saying.
Eight people dead, that doesn’t sound gross and bad enough?
A: Is it confirmed? You here in the United States, you’re not in Nigeria.
Madam Minister, even the death of one Nigerian should be bad enough. It is enough to make us feel diminished. I have just come back from Nigeria..
So where did you go in Nigeria?
Everywhere..
Perhaps you went to Lagos and Ibadan. Did you go to Owerri? Did you go to Jos? Did you go to Port Harcourt? Did you go to Maiduguri? We should stop doing this thing to the image of our country. It is not fair.
It is not about the questions I ask, it is going to be how you take my genuine desire to ensure that the accountability component of our democracy is not destroyed. So does your government regret the killings?
Of course no government would be happy that its citizens die unjustifiably.
And do you want to tell the world that the most basic of all rights, the right to life, would be sacrosanct?
Oh yeah, The first few days the protests started, the inspector-general of police kept announcing that the police was there to protect protesters, that people should just go about the protests in a peaceful manner, so that they don’t infringe on the rights of those who were not protesting. The government said so, the defense ministers said so, the president emphasized it that no one must be molested or hurt, that it is part of democracy. We are all Nigerians; nobody would give such order that people should be killed. We are all entitled to our opinions and impressions.
Nigerians have the belief that the subsidies removal policy is being rammed-down their throat at the prompting of the Bretton-Woods institutions. How much of pressure did you get from the IMF and the World Bank?
No, no. Many of us are progressive leaders. It is a straight-forward Nigerian thing. There was no pressure whatsoever from IMF or World Bank. If this subsidy had been removed earlier the market forces, the increase in prices, the depreciation of the dollar, that would be on the correct pricing of this international commodity, that the refined oil, would not have been our burden. It not have met us, because each time we refuse to do it, and then you get back to it, it would increase again. Government said that instead of putting it into consumer product; let us use the money for infrastructure and development of strong production base, into services, so that the majority of Nigerians would feel the impact.
Many people also that they don’t feel the impact of the subsidy thing, and that why is it there? The government is now re-directing the funds to more service-oriented programs, like ensuring that education, even at the rural level would be worth it, giving universal health care delivery and making sure that all the goods of the Millennium Development Goals are met, including hundreds of thousands of job creation for youths and productive citizens, so that they would be out of the streets. We want to drastically reduce crime rates. We want to see our people positively engaged and so on an so forth. Government is re-activating and expanding our railway system so that mass transportation of food, material and men can be cheaper. The government is injecting mass transit buses in order to drive down the cost of transportation. We are getting more diesel-powered vehicles; so much is going on in the area of security and safety.
One would expect that if the military spending, the security votes, that have not succeeded at curtailing violent criminals and Boko Haram murderers, you don’t think the government would conserve more money for its capital expenditure?
You are not in the military. There is no way you can be sure of what the military budget is.
Then we have to be more open on secret spending. If President Obama is doing it in America, and the rest of the world too is looking for where to plug the financial leaks, reducing the cost of military and making them to be more effective in their operations, will that be too much to ask of Nigeria?
You can suggest but always remember, we are not Obama, we are not United States. We have to work within our own system; it is good to do what would work for us. Part of our problem is that we always want to lift ideas that are not ours and then we end up with square pegs in round holes. Down-sizing is good, but it is going to be in the context of our environment and peculiar needs. We would look at the level of manpower, the challenges facing the people in defense. Do they need more men to face the challenges? Whatever can be done to curtail the present challenges like Boko Haram, our international peace keeping commitments which are important for global peace and human co-existence, cannot be ignored. We are talking of a population of over one hundred and sixty million. Whether at home in Africa, or elsewhere in the world. Still, we shall continue to do whatever necessary.
Government has given its commitment on tighter fiscal discipline, if it would impact on our military budget, we would not speculate on that. The Minister of Defense would be more definite in the days ahead on what happens in his ministry.
Your administration, while the campaigns were on, was plainly told that the system would be shut down if certain people did not get into power, there have also been intelligence that Dr. Jonathan would be violently opposed and branded as ineffective and clueless in the four years that it would take him as a one term president, why has there been no adequate response, in view all these ominous signs?
People do different things. If you are a leader, you get information from everywhere. People do all things, you get things the press, you also have information on strategies, so the leader is able to put all the things together, granted people would look at things from peculiar prisms, “Oh I have bad information,” or “I have the best strategy” and everybody’s suggestion is coming to one person. It is the place of the leader to put things in proper perspective, put the structure in place on what would work. I want to assure you that our security agencies are working. They are not sleeping.
Remember that some of these challenges are global in discussions. That is why we have always said that the international community must collaborate; join hands with us to fight terrorism in Nigeria, Africa and everywhere. Yes, there is Boko Haram now in Nigeria, but it started elsewhere and it continues to grow, even countries that are spared today may have to deal with what are now battling with. When terrorists struck on 9|11, we never thought that, we never envisaged that anything of such nature would come to Nigeria. Terrorism is now going around every continent; the international community must rise up with appropriate response and framework to the challenge.
It is not peculiar to any country. Even terrorists themselves are now beginning to understand that they are not going to have safe haven anywhere. Humanity has become the victim of terrorism scourge. It makes the entire world to be unsafe. That is why our president is passionate in his campaign against proliferation of small arms and light weapons. It is part of why we have tightened border security and a counter-terror unit has been set up in the National Security Adviser’s office. We are collaborating with the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Agency in addition to other organizations that we are working with. We are not sleeping, we are nor standing still, we not in office without doing something. Worse things would have happened if we were not working. Many arrests have been made, people are being tried.
However, security issues are sensitive issues. They are not things you discuss carelessly or frivolously. The more you talk about it, the more you expose and give away, and that can also weaken your own resolve. We all must strategize and talk less. We would be getting more of the results of the solutions we are applying and deploying. Government is working surely and steadily too.
Is your government also ensuring that no one is also calling for a military coup?
Nigerians can’t call for military coups. We are part of the global community that loves and talks and practices democracy. Nigeria now has credible elections and we are spreading democracy and strengthening its institutions on the continent. Nigeria has helped with issues in Libya, Liberia, Angola, Ivory Coast, etc. We cannot be talking about military rule in country. Every well-meaning Nigerian is happy with democracy.
How responsive would this government be to the electorate, it is going to shift ground on the subsidies policy?
Nigerian people elected us. We are responsive. We are having dialogue. And the people will know we are working for them. We have been accepted into the body of best democracies in the world. I was at the meeting, we were not only admitted as a member nation, I represented Nigeria at the meeting and we were elected into their board to represent the African sub-region. The world knows and the world appreciates Nigeria’s democracy. Even in the face of challenges we face, Mr. President is not saying that people should not demonstrate; demonstrate but be peaceful. That is also a major statement in practical democracy.
So any concession to the people?
In a nation of one hundred and sixty million people, thirty-six states and the federal capital territory, some people do not want subsidy removal. Some also want it to be removed. And there are protests in ten out of thirty six states..
People got creative, some stayed at home, some occupied their beds, work, shut down everywhere..
Yet, regrettable as the situation is, you say everywhere, maybe five million people on the streets, and the other one hundred and ten million are not on the streets. We should look at the development that way. You cannot just generalize and conclude that everyone was on the street. Even if there were ten million on the streets, some one hundred and fifty million would still stay off the streets. Having said that, government felt it was important to listen to the people, it is important to negotiate with labor. And the negotiations are on, they would not be for nothing. At the end of the day, everyone’s effort would be worth the stress. We would not pre-empt anything. And the world would know.