-Lambasts Gov. Mimiko’s Policy on Reforestation as ‘Wicked’
-Says Kingsley Kuku Cannot Represent the Yoruba in the Senate
Comrade Bola Ajimuda, the
leader of the Yoruba Integrity Group, played a pivotal role in the struggle to birth democracy in Nigeria as then-Senate President of the National Association of Nigerian Students (NANS). Ajimuda is now a staunch member of the Action Congress of Nigeria.
In this interview with sharpedgenews.com’s Editor-In-Chief, Oladimeji Abitogun and Staff Reporter Mobolaji Ajibuwa, he condemns the “deliberate effort” to dislodge farmers from forest reserves in Ondo State, and the tendentious style of Governor Mimiko.
He also says it would be unacceptable for presidential Adviser, Kingsley Kuku, an Ijaw man, to go to the senate on a Yoruba ticket and, wait for this, he says President Jonathan has failed on good governance since coming into power two years ago.
Excerpts:
What is your take on the effort of Ondo State Government in dislodging farmers from forest reserves in the state?
My simple take on this is that this is outright wickedness and irresponsibility on the part of leadership of the state. If we go after cocoa plantation, then it tells the public about our true and genuine disposition to the subject of agriculture. It’s not important to say people encroach on government land. We must appreciate the fact that government owns the land in trust for the people. I know in this country, landmass is not a challenge. We have more than enough land as a people. That is one of the greatest blessings that we have.
But people will say that may not be for too long because no city limits are set. People just go wherever they want, they do whatever they want.
You see, essentially, when you want to regulate the conduct of people that is the responsibility of government. You don’t do it by sitting with hand akimbo. Allow people to do what appears to be wrong, and now you carry the sledge hammer, you begin to, in your bid to deal with the wrong that they did, you are now destroying the economy of the state. Whether you like it or not the mainstay of our economy, genuine economy in this state, is agriculture. And today, we have lost that. There is no deliberate policy on the part of the government to resuscitate this sector. The kind of thing we do now is the handbag economy. Every governor goes to Abuja to collect money.
But we just interviewed the Permanent Secretary, Marcus Aloba and he admitted the fact that so much forest reservations in Ondo State were depleted but that today, what they are doing, not only reclaiming but also doing reforestation massively. He gave a figure (2000 hectares) being rehabilitated on daily basis and he said 2million trees are being planted every year.
My challenge is this: people should do simple analysis. What is the proportion of the landmass that successive government, including this government have been able to judiciously utilize especially for the purpose of real productivity to enhance the GDP of this state. As it were, this is an agrarian environment, agrarian economy, how much of our GDP has come from agriculture? This is the reflection of utilization of landmass and natural resources. What is the proportion of our annual revenue that is derivable from either agriculture or forestry? We need to know this so that we know whether government itself has demonstrated capacity of what we call profitable exploitation of natural endowment. As it were today, a large chore of our citizenry are unemployed.
The only thing they can do is to go into agriculture. It is not only in this state, even in the neighboring states particularly the South West. So you see people in their bid to just get food on their table they go into agriculture and today we do not have a framework that regulates the activities of the common man particularly on agriculture. There is no policy framework consistent, pursued by any government across the South West. So why do we now come out if a people have gone to anywhere to establish cocoa plantation.
I’m aware because I also handled cocoa while I was in the bank. I know that almost 85 to 90% of the plantation that we have today were things that were inherited from forebears. Most of the cocoa trees are aged, productivity level is low. And that is why the production of cocoa in Ondo State has fallen drastically. So if there are deliberate efforts on the part of the private sector, the common man without enabling environment provided by government, without support of government and all of what we need to do is to go and destroy. I am talking about the concept, the tendency for destruction. It’s inhuman, it’s outright wickedness. It shows that somebody does not have genuine patriotic feeling.
Yes they may be wrong. What is wrong there is the fact that they encroached on government land but nobody has said it that they encroached on unutilized government land, an idle land. It’s as good as I go to the Atlantic today to fish and you say I am encroaching because it falls within the territory of Nigerian Government, I need to take permission before I go a fishing there. So whatever fish I must have derived there, you throw it into the dustbin and destroy it. Then who is losing? It’s only an irresponsible leadership that will give approval to that. Not in a state like ours where people are totally unengaged.
Your position will be interesting to politicians of equal standing anywhere in the world. This is the law of the land this is what………
I’ve always been saying it. You see this government has a tendency of using the wrong approach to resolve what is ordinarily a simple mistake which should be corrected. Look at, I understand that seven local governments did not follow due process in recruiting some category of workers and the next thing the government did was to look at these people and declare them ghost workers.
In the first place, that was a misapplication of that analogy. In economics, when we say ghost workers, it’s only when you try to bloat up the salary structure of a system, the wage bill of a system without commensurate increase in the number of workforce. So what you do on the paper, you seem to increase the wage bill deliberately. That is fraud.
Which is what the government has said happened here.
That is not what happens here. Genuinely people were recruited but government is saying that these people did not follow what we term due process. My position is clear. If indeed Dr. Rahman Mimiko had advocated for true federalism in which we have three tiers of government, I do not believe. Even the military regime. I do not subscribe to that argument that local government should come and take express permission from a state government before they recruit some category of workers.
Noted. Let me quote the governor himself. He said in the staff audit process initiated by his government, it was discovered that……………
For God’s sake why should a man who believes in true federalism, constitutional federalism, three tiers of government, the federal, the state, the local. If a local government deem it necessary, let them use all their allocation to pay salaries of workers so be it. If that is the decision there.
Governor has alleged that the wage bill of Ondo state…
It’s not Ondo State if the wage bill of local government is paid, that is not On
do State. What the governor is only telling the public is that he is also the chairman of the 18 local governments. By that singular action, that shows that if the likes of Rahman Mimiko had been a khaki man, a uniform man, they will never never subscribe to the concept of democracy. It shows how undemocratic he is naturally.
But Governor Mimiko has said over 6,000 nonexistent or illegally employed workers were fraudulently added to the state wage bill.
They are not nonexistent. It’s either illegally employed. Are they not indigenes of this state? Don’t government have the responsibility of providing job for the citizenry? Then what is government doing?
He too would be arguing that it could be sheer abdication on his part elected with the mandate.
What is the argument? I’ve asked them to call for a public debate over this issue. Nobody gave him the mandate to decide the fate of local government workers. Local government workers belong to the local government .He is not chairman of local government. The resources of local government Rahman should give back to those who are presiding over the affairs of local government.
It is interference, honestly it is a very primitive interference and the way it portrays a leader is the undemocratic nature of man. If he has gotten the opportunity to seize power by force, he will not relinquish power. It shows he’s not a democrat. If I become the governor of this state today, believe you me I will run what we call true and genuine federalism, constitutional federalism. All local government will operate under a democratic system.
Would that also include allowing the economy to run amuck?
The economy does not run amuck. You must allow the local government, the government at that local level to operate on its own. As it were, the kind of democracy that I like to see, because in a multi party system like ours is where out of 18local governments will also have different parties if the people so wish. ACN in Ilaje local government, PDP in Akoko North West Local government, Labour party in another local government.
Anybody that is familiar with the problem of lack of internal democracy in ACN will think that what you are criticizing is coming out of sheer hypocrisy.
Provided that is the wish of the people. What we are preaching and practicing, we are only mouthing it.
Would ACN ever allow you to vet this idea?
It’s not about ACN allowing me to actualize the idea. ACN whether you like it or not is a democratic organization. I will not be part of the system where you will never allow democracy to grow, to mature. If I become a governor of a state who says that local government election will not be held? And I will sit down and begin to appoint my cronies to take charge of the council and not even assign any responsibility? Who says the governor is better than any other person? Let him come and tell us now. Did he grow up in a different environment? Didn’t we all grow up in this place? So we don’t know one another? He came from the blue or he’s more intelligent? Is he more responsible? He has greater patriotism? Has he evidence of any sacrifice for democracy?
No, we know ourselves. Today as it were in this country I say it Rahman Mimiko has no modicum of sacrifice for democracy that we have. In the hay days of military dictatorship, this was the apogee of military dictatorship, we know them. They were collaborating with Abacha and all kind of things in a very defective transitional program. So where is he coming from? Where does he derive this from?
What I’m saying is that this man should demonstrate commitment to democracy. Because this is a rare priviledge for him. Very soon he will leave the place. No other thing I’m asking for. If you run a place for over four years and local government election is not conducted, again you are beginning to act like chairman. Now he is the chairman of every local government in the state. You go to the local government, you determine their workforce, how does the economy of the local government affect him?
Sir, it could be said that you and your party had the opportunity of putting this on the front burner during the debate for the last gubernatorial election in the state. Why didn’t you do it?
Let me also tell you that it is not the debate that determines who runs the affairs of this state. You see the good people of Ondo state demonstrated in the last election we have insisted and we have evidence you have said it the world is aware. Everybody knows that there was no election in this state. It was criminally rigged
The same world said it that there was a free and fair election
Who said so?
Observers internationally, all over the world
Where were they? The observers who were along Oba Adesida here when election was being rigged in farmlands at Idanre. Honestly when Labour party people were rigging election at Idanre, when they were stealing ballot boxes all over in the riverine, and we have all of these facts, when already the register of voters have been tinkered with criminally through card igbeayo and we have all of these facts. And somebody sits down and says he’s a lawyer, and another sits down and say he’s a judge and you are telling us that fact, such fake facts are pre-election matters. What is important to all of us. We may disagree on partisan frontier but when it comes to subject of democracy, we must unite. We must unite to defend, to protect democracy I can assure you, if we fail to do it, this house will soon collapse and by the time it is going to collapse, nobody will find escape honestly nobody.
I need to have your view on the policy because I know you are from Ondo State oil producing area. Are you satisfied with the amnesty agenda of the Federal Government as it concerns the Niger-delta groups?
Amnesty? What is amnesty? Amnesty is a pseudo name for corruption, massive corruption. It’s unfortunately but I’m sure by the grace of God Goodluck Jonathan will find his way out very soon. By 2015 he’s out of the place and honestly the subject of amnesty will be brought under clinical book. That will be done.
You have no faith
There is nothing to have faith in. In the first place I do not see any basis for anything called amnesty. What is amnesty? Amnesty for who? Why should there be amnesty in the first place. What was the struggle of the Niger-Delta people? Then go and pay amnesty to Ken Sarowiwa, go and pay amnesty to Adak Aboro. These are the people who originated this struggle. Most of these people running up and down today they don’t understand what they are saying. Amnesty for what?
It was a general struggle and what we are saying is that the people who produce so much in region where you are taking so much, development also should revisit those areas in a commensurate proportion. It is not by selecting some hoodlums, some criminals and you begin to use them as a front to steal public money and you call it amnesty. All of them will pay dearly for it. That is the fact. There is no amnesty anywhere. EFCC should go and visit the amnesty office and you will see the kind of works. All of these boys that are being used today are unfortunate. Very very unfortunate. History will record for everybody.
You must know Kingsley Kuku a little bit, or know him very well. He was supposed to step into your shoes maybe a year or two after you graduated as president
I’m not sure. Where was Kingsley Kuku when I graduated? He must be in ‘prelim’ when I graduated I didn’t know him in school.
But he struggled so hard to become.. he probably saw you as a hero
He couldn’t have done that because you also
were part of the struggle and you know that we have an incubating system where we incubate people. First and foremost we are to train people and I remember that at the level of NANS we had what we call PYM and at the level of Ondo State University we have what we call Marxist Youth Movement so I’m not too sure, I can’t remember if Kinsley was a member of that ideology group.
But he evoked your name so much during his time. He was prevented by the military from emerging ……
Well, well, well, you know for purism, so many names could be flaunted. Today people will tell you I’m a Marxist, some will say I’m an Awoist and honestly where are the Awoists in the land? Where are they? Genuine Awoists, how many people understand?
You are saying Jonathan will be booted out 2015 but this young man has said it won’t happen and that Nigerians will bond. So what will happen?
Jonathan is a tragedy. He’s the most unfortunate thing. And one of the thing everybody owe this country is to make sure, it’s not about party, is to make sure that Jonathan quickly gets out of that place. One fact that is in controvertic is that he neither had the willingness nor the capacity to provide leadership for this great nation. That he has demonstrated. So it will be ungodly for anybody to allow Jonathan and Patience his wife to sit in that place a second after.
Sir Maybe I see this through a different angle, but one thing I know is that this is a man, even if as good as…….
Are you aware that Jonathan has no basic understanding of every facet of leadership?
But he will argue that people, forces, entrenched and with proven vested interest are really lying against him and that from day one they were focused on defining him as ineffective with boko haram crises and all that
If they are working him to be so ineffective, honestly the man should in the name of God that we all serve back out. It will be a shame
Will that not be like submitting to boko haram insurgence?
It is not. I tell you today that Boko Haram insurgence, the inordinate ambition of Goodluck Jonathan is also behind the insurgence. The inordinate ambition, the desperation that he has shown to continue in power is the root of insecurity in Nigeria. The day Jonathan comes out openly to Nigeria and say enough is enough; I am not coming back here having served this long, believe you me boko haram will disappear naturally.
But I assume he has not even finished his second term in office..
What is a second term? He completed the first term that himself and his oga started. It’s a joint ticket. Oga was not even there to take 50% of that time. He completed it. He ran a second term. What he’s asking for is a third term.
I must tell you that this is his first term and everybody knows that.
Are we not talking about public office? Is that a private office? Does that office belong to his father? Why can’t people fear God?
I will ask you sir, if a northern politician were to be in charge…..
Let me tell you I am saying it that Jonathan is completing a second term by 2015. This is a public office. He also shares from the success and failure of that tenure. Again he was the one who along with Sambo completed that tenure. Leadership has no geographical identity. I for instance do not think it is geography that is the challenge of Nigeria. It is in the man that is there. It is the calibre of people, the mindset of leadership, the quality of leadership, the determination of people to deliver, dividends of leadership. It’s either you have that willingness or capacity when you come. So it doesn’t matter whether you are a Yoruba man. We have had a Yoruba man there, now the Niger-Delta man is there. Niger-delta is still submerged in underdevelopment – still an abandoned place. Where is the development? You cannot in isolation develop Niger-Delta, Niger-Delta is an integral part of Nigeria. If you want genuine development, it is an integrated process.
Are you not giving Erubebe any credit?
Who is Erubebe?
The minister of Niger-Delta Development
He is a tragedy. What do you call Erubebe? Erubebe is another pseudonym for what I call public failure. The man should go and bury himself in shame; it’s not about money. What I know is that all of us, we owe God. Because of this vanity that people are pursuing. I just laugh. That is the truth my brother. Erubebe belongs to our generation. It is tragic. These are unforgivable things I can’t stand it
The way you talk it’s like you feel personally betrayed
Why would I not? Already our generation has begun to fail Nigeria. Wole Soyinka talked about his generation but ours are also falling into that cadre and what we are struggling now to minimize damage is to also ensure that our children do not one day look back, look around and begin to curse our lineage. I tell you all of these people, Jonathan and his co-travellers when they came on board it was not the Nigeria they met. In every facet this was not the Nigeria they met. The guy would talk about being shoeless. When he was shoeless there was no insecurity in the land. The economy was strong and it was sound. The environment encourages growth and realization of potentials that now he’s at the helm of affairs all of these he’s denying the younger generation and those on board. Look at what he has turn Nigeria into, another Afghanistan. So that is the truth.
He will tell you that he is not a bomb thrower that he hasn’t thrown a single bomb
Who said he hasn’t thrown a single bomb? He knows about it. He has created an environment that is now throwing bomb under his nose. Remember that his former security chief, late Andrew Azazi lamented in one of his reports that the root of insecurity in this country is largely political. It’s about unfairness, about injustice particularly in the ruling party.
Is that not a way of excusing what is obvious?
It is not about a way of excusing. What it’s trying to tell somebody is that all of the evil game that we are playing, the power mark is there, you have not applied the concept of justice and fairness.
I know you too well that you are pan Nigerian but I also have my fear that if you come into office today as the president of Nigeria, the same element will manifest, because I think the overriding agenda for Boko Haram is extreme Islamism, the violent type.
It is not. They are only employing that as a veil. They are only using that as a venial.
And you don’t think a section of the country doesn’t want to accept leadership from other federating part?
See there is no section that does not want to. What Nigerians are yearning for is good life. Remember what Amicah Cabral said he said what are the people fighting for? The people are not fighting for ideas or those things in any words heard. The people are fighting for material benefit to live better and in peace, to see their lives move forward and to guarantee the future of their children. What are Nigerians yearning for today? What are they crying about? Why is there Boko Haram in the north? Why do you have OPC in the South? Why do you have criminality in Niger-Delta? The simple thing, the common thing all of them are saying is that they need material benefit to live a better life, peaceful life, to see their life go forward and to guarantee the future of their children. That is what they want the government to provide. It is not the idea in any one’s head. It’s not the sentiment that people are weeping, nobody is interested in any religion. They are asking for material benefit to live better and in peace. That
has been the fundamentals of every genuine struggle.
Finally I look at the possibility of uneasy political development in the Niger-Delta as time unfolds I know Kingsley Kuku may want to go for the senate and I also know that you are a political person there. How is that?
Which of the senate? To represent where? Which of the geographical districts?
Ondo South senatorial district
Everybody has a right to aspire. It’s an inalienable right but my claim and my plea, I also know that you must exercise caution in demonstrating these rights. You must also know that your right probably ends where the loads of another man begins. If anybody wants to go to the senate to represent any part of Oduduwa republic in Nigeria, I tell you and I stand to be corrected, he must be a true born of Oduduwa. The blood, the gene of Oduduwa must permeate his/her blood system. If you are not a true Yoruba man, you have no business, there is no way you can represent the Yoruba people particularly the spirit of our ancestors. The people we send to the senate, honestly it is not only the living they are representing they are also representing the dead, our forebears and that is the sacred fact. So if you don’t belong to that extraction, you must agree with me that I am the leader of Yoruba integrity group, a socio- political organization. So there is nobody who will go particularly in the south-west, if you are not a Yoruba person.
The fellow you are talking about if he is indeed a Yoruba man, there is nothing bad in going there but if you belong to a micro minority in this Yoruba eclipse, I don’t know but I can say this: when you go to a place like the senate that is the highest legislative seat. Part of the luggage you are to carry there belongs to Oduduwa so that is the fact. It is a pre-determinant except Kingsley wants to go and increase the slot of Bayelsa from 4 to 5. It is then he can aspire to say he wants to go to senate, which senate? We will sit down as Yoruba people to determine who goes to the senate in Yoruba region. Believe you me we don’t toy about that we sit down as Yoruba people and when I say Yoruba people, I mean Yoruba people. We are not divided by partisanship. Sincerely so that is the fact.
You said that the senator of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and this man is a Nigerian. He is not aspiring to go to the Yoruba assembly or Yoruba senate
But if you are going to the senate, particularly from the Yoruba region, you must also know that literarily you are going there to represent the Yoruba people. That is my understanding and that is what I stand for. That is important to us and let us now pedestrialize issues. These are feelings, sentiments, very strong sentiments. Whether you like it or not Kuku is an Ijaw man, you are a Yoruba man. Yours is Ijaw Ondo they are micro-minority. They stand as micro-minority it will be sheer irresponsibility for an Ijaw man to aspire to go to the senate in Yoruba land.
But you are known as somebody that fights also for the rights of the minority
I fight for the right of minority. Yes. It is to the extent of the existence of the minority. I can tell you the interest of the minority is well defined and well protected but we will not also allow minority to survive the interest of majority, particularly in terms of representation.
Thank you comrade
God bless you my brother.