Tope Fasua: Why Nigeria Needs One Legislative House

The ex- Presidential candidate of ANRP, in the last general election who is an Economist, Dr. Tope Fasua, in this interview with Dayo Omoogun, averred that because the problem with Nigeria is not about law making, rather it is about implementation, it therefore does not need two legislative Chambers. Excerpt…

 

Qtn: Observers are of the opinion that you jumped so many rungs of the political ladder to take a shot at the presidency which didn’t add up for you and your party. Why didn’t you start your political from the legislative level?

 

Ans: Thank you very much, there are several reasons for me taking a shot at the presidency, one is that I’ m not interested in those rungs for now, as is it. I certainly refused to be yoked with the kind of characters in the House Representatives, where for example, many of them made their money from unethical businesses and scams. I’m also not interested in being at the Senate either. I’m not interested in being part of the problem, as a matter of fact, I believe that our discussion today should be about how do we scrap one of those houses? Whether the House of Reps should go or the Senate. As an Economist, I know that the problem of Nigeria is not at the legislative level, its not that we do not have enough laws, and a lot of people focus on legislations, reforms and so on but, it is just a symptom of the problem not the problem. The situation right now in Nigeria is that when you are close to power, you are invariably close to money and therefore it becomes a matter of just grab it and run. It has become winner takes all, a gangster’s paradise. People who get power, they max out, no one cares about the other fellow who cannot feed this morning. The problem really is at the presidential level, what we need is a total overhaul, thats why my campaign was centered around the revolution of ideas. I particularly went after the word revolution because the entire system needs total turnaround and shake up.

 

 

Qtn: Sir, were you actually convinced that you win the presidential election? 

 

Ans: No, but I believed my ideas would win. I had about 50 different fliers on different issues, such as Agriculture, power, Education and so on even some more greater ideas like growing the economy at 15% per annum, I was specific about what I wanted to achieve. I think that should be the way to go. I knew I wasnt going to win, but I knew my ideas would and some of them are now being taken up. For example I did a research on the Palm oil sector, talking about diversifying from crude oil, and you know, one day I travelled to Ondo state for my campaign and on my way back, I bought some things including palm oil along the way.  I discovered that 4 liters of Palm Oil is selling at N2, 200, which meant that a liter sold for about N550. One liter of crude oil at $60 per barrel, is about N115 for a liter, so we have 1 liter of crude oil at N115 and 1 liter of palm oil at N550, so its clear the one we should be investing in. So why is everyone queuing up on this crude oil? It is because of sheer laziness, you want to sit inside one air-conditioned office, get all those alerts coming from abroad. If you look at the cost of producing crude oil vis-a-vis the cost of producing palm oil, and you look at the number of people involved in the value chain of palm oil, vis-à-vis those involved in crude oil, if you look at the technology and how long we have been producing palm oil compared to crude oil, youd see that clearly we need to be doing something in this direction. Recently the Governor of the Central Bank (CBN) was referencing my work to the Bankers Committee, talking about what I wrote. So for me it is good that at least they’ve taken it up.

 

Qtn: Don’t you think that the way to go would be for someone like you with greater ideas, Moghalu, Sowore or Durotoye should team up in the 2023 election?

 

 

Ans: The thing is that the problem is bigger than these people you’ve mentioned, a lot of people approached me since we finished, and said you guys should come together, and I said we were not enough, we need more people to sign on. The best of us is yet to come, they’re still skeptical, look at what has happened, there is a take-over now, its a mafia economy, look at the kind of people that were appointed as ministers, a so-called anti-corruption president is now appointing about 10 persons who already have cases even under his government.

 

 

Qtn: In the run-up to the 2015 elections you were one of those who rooted for and voted for PMB, now suddenly in 2019, you throw your hat into the ring, what does that say? Is that a sign of your dissatisfaction with his performance?

 

Ans: It is actually, and let me give you the reasons why I believed in PMB initially. Historically, I attended an army secondary school in Akure, Ondo state and we saw them as heroes. In December 1983 was when Buhari struck because there was uneasy silence in Akure and the whole of Ondo State which included the current Ekiti State when it was alleged that Ajasin of the UPN won the election but Omoboriowo was sworn in and in the violence that followed, many NPN members were lynched. So throughout that period people were expecting that there would be a kind of retaliation from the NPN people who were now in government among who was the governor then and so for me it was good. I felt a sense of relief that Buhari took over and not only did he take over there were some reforms which I liked. Also, one popular refrain at the time was  hoarding of essential commodities where importers will import milk, sugar etc and lock them up in warehouses waiting for when the prices will spike before they sell them. Buhari came, forced the warehouses open and the goods sold at government controlled prices. There was also the War Against Indiscipline.  For an 11 year old it was powerful, so I’ ve always supported him when he went into politics, I didnt know his personality per se. But I supported him because I thought that things were bad enough under former President Good luck Jonathan. So, yes I put my support behind him in 2015, but it took me 6 months to realise that he wasnt the one, not only because he didnt appoint his ministers (on time) but also because I noticed curiously in the one or two media chats he had, every time he was asked about the suffering of the people, he got angry and I was wondering why. There was a woman called Dr. Mrs. Ngozi Anyaegbunam who was in one of the interviews and when she asked him how he planned to ensure that his anti-corruption agenda is imbibed in the civil service, he (Buhari) said, they would continue to do their promotion exams and their normal training and it was clear that he was not ready. When I realised this, I asked myself how many times I would be conned. You know in politics people get conned, there is very well packaged fakery going on. For me I felt fine, I have to run against this man; I will not be supporting anybody anymore. Let me support myself since I know what I want. I mean, who do you trust in this country? I mean who would have imagined that Buhari would have been the real czar of corruption?

 

 

 

Qtn:  What is your take on the conduct of the 2019
election?

 

Ans:  No, they were not free and fair. Number one, one could try to be nice to INEC, I know some of the guys in INEC, and they try to put in a good days job, not all of them are corrupt, the work is really tough, and Nigerian politicians are crazy.

 

Qtn: Could it have been naivety on the part of the very top gun?

 

Ans: I think the guy tries to be professional, I have met him a couple of times, but how do you get professional when someone with a criminal mindset probably appointed you to a position, who is going to come leaning on you saying “Oh boy listen you have to deliver, now is the time, this is the reason why I put you there” its a huge joke. But you see, the reason why I’ m going to move against INEC is that INEC is also moving against me, as a leader of a small political party which has suffered as a result of the corruption in the Nigerian political process, and you come and tell me you want to remove my license because you felt irritated that I exist as a political party. And Im going to be leaning on all the reports by the NDI, IRI, EU, and the Situation Room. I must also say that whereas 73 of the parties indicated that they were going to field presidential candidates, at least 53 of them stepped down, for either the APC or PDP. About 40 first stepped down for Atiku for their CUPP thing and then 12 including Ahmed Buhari stepped down two days before the election, so it is very unfair for some of us who went the whole hog and didnt stand down for anybody, for it to be said 73 people contested. Those guys knew from the start that they were not going to contest, most of them did not go anywhere in this country, I travelled to at least 32 states in this country, the little money I had I put it into it. I didn’t run with other peoples money in the main, of course a few people were generous to send me something. Also during my campaign, I was out on the streets at least four times, demonstrating from Ministry of Finance, Budgeting, talking about our small budget figure.

 

 Qtn: What is your take on the last ministerial screening?

 

Ans: Of course it is a joke, even our oppressors are even tired of the games they ‘re playing, and sometimes even they wonder why people take it. Some of them cant believe their luck, as Nigerians we really do not know what we want, so for them its a joke. Its gone beyond the pale, to the extent, they cant even act anymore. So you want to sit down in the senate there and you know you got there via fraud yourself, and you know your colleagues are criminals. Then you want to claim that you ‘re a serious person and begin to ask them technical questions….there’s  no point, let them bow and go. The other day I was in the senate for one hearing or the other for political parties, and I looked at the senators that were there sitting on the high table, most of them were people involved in one crime or the other, its either you ‘re one senator who is being docked for forgery and impersonation, or you were one woman who did a fraud in the bank before getting into the senate a long time ago, or you were being dragged by the Code of Conduct Bureau. We have now seen a scenario where a career in crime has become a sine qua non for you to get into a career in public service in Nigeria. You must have rubbed yourself in some proper criminality to get you the notoriety and also to get you the money to be able to contest for elections. Since Nigerians want the money, how do you get money, how many people will legitimately make money now and go on the street and start sharing it to people to win elections.

 

Qtn: What are the two areas where you would give kudos to the PMB government and two areas where you think they have not done well?

 

Ans:  I try to be fair, lets say the Boko Haram thing is not as bad as it used to be, yet its still terrible, our soldiers are dying every day, people are afraid of going to the South-West, there are random shootings, killings, and all. So its difficult to even commend them on security. Its difficult, I cant pass them on the economy, they ruined the economy further, so Im trying to be fair in thinking, what have they done right, so maybe Ill get back to you on that question.

 

Qtn: To you, what are the two or three quick fixes, low hanging fruits that you think this government can tap into, to turn things around?

 

Ans:  I have put a few of those ideas outside, I think it has to do with how you imagine the economy and what you imagine for yourself as a people. Albert Einstein said that “Logic will get you from point A to point B but Imagination takes you everywhere”. So how imaginative are we? And because I’ m also a Chartered Accountant and I know that there are two ways to increase profit. Either you are boosting your revenue or you are reducing your expenditure. So one of the things they need to do is to reduce their cost. I dont know how else to say it. 

I was reading the interview of Honourable Wole Oke of Osun state, Ilesha area and he was complaining that the people are always talking about legislators that dont they look at other people? That he as a legislator approves SUVs worth N78 million each for DGs of parastatals and that some of them have 4 or more and then he was given 508 Peugeot that what is he going to do with that, that he doesnt drive it that he can’t be seen inside it. That he has his own Toyota Land Cruiser. There is a need for something drastic, we are past Marie Antoinettes point several times over, when they said “the people cannot eat bread and they said why can’t they eat cake?” Because they are so deviated from reality, they think that just the way the same thing is flowing in the Palace of Versailles so it is everywhere. First of all, low hanging fruits… is Buhari serious, they say he has four Mercedes Benz Maybach, at 78! They are not ready to reduce expenses, no one is ready to make sacrifices. 

Lets start by imagining our economy far bigger than it is right now, I think we should be planning on double digit GDP growth, which will result in the high productivity in the average Nigerian. If we say that this economy can grow by 15% every year, what it means is that I and yourself can be 15% more productive than we were last year. I think that should be achievable. I’ m sorry to say this but we have an overdrive of entrepreneurship in this country, we are pushing all our youths into desperation, you claim there are no jobs so they should become entrepreneurs, but this is as a result of our lack of planning. What have we achieved in this country? This is an unbuilt country! Who is going to build it? I was reading in the papers recently that Nigeria is the second highest country involved in “Open Defecation”, but the global community is about to help us….Are we normal? What are we talking about? The global community will come and pack your shit?

 

For example, India, 5 years ago launched a program called Swash Barrat, and they put the energies of the Indians behind it, they didnt go to World Bank to borrow money. We go to World Bank to borrow for everything? In that programme, the Indians built about 90 million new toilets with that program. What they did was they appealed to the citizens to sell some of their jewelries to build a small bathroom behind each house, because before then, women would wait until 7:30 PM, in the night to go inside the bush to ease themselves, they get bitten by snakes, stung by scorpions, then sometimes rapists get into the scene and all of that was unhygienic. Soon Nigeria would be topping the list when China with a population of 1.
4 billion people are there! How come they dont have that problem? Why are we living like animals here? Until Nigeria gets it right, the negative talks about the black race would remain valid. We Nigerians are living in conditions not even suitable for animals, right now this is supposed to be Abuja, but there are over a thousand slums/ghettos here in Abuja. You may want to talk about the estate development in Abuja, but those are waste, there are over 400,000 housing units that are unoccupied in Abuja, this would result in dilapidation as a result of the emptiness. 

 

Qtn: How do you relate that with the monies that have been seized which is about a trillion Naira, why dont we use that to offset some of these debts? Have you looked at that?

 

Ans: That would have been the logical solution, but in this country the loot are being re-looted, it is standard practice, and at some point we begged Buhari to account for everything you take, write it down and make them public. They were just using the found monies as media sensation as at then, but there was no record. I mean this money is not your money, look at what happened to Abachas loot, the same Buhari came and said, Abacha was not corrupt, that he was only helping Nigeria by keeping the money somewhere whatever the case may be, send the money back and he said he was going to use the money to fund the election season, it is wrong because Buhari is not the state, Abacha stole from every Nigerian, he didnt steal from you alone and for you to wake up and say this is what Im going to use the money for is unacceptable, just like what they called the Paris club refund, do you know the scam in that one also, its tiring. They tried Obasanjo with it, he dismissed them. Yaradua didnt listen to them, Jonathan didnt also. Buhari decided after he had slept for the first 6 months he realised that he was losing political power just opened the flood gates and started gifting money to the governors. An accountable government would have been able to match the amount they have recovered with what they have used it for. Magu and co, they (Nigerians) were begging them, please make it open, make it accountable, make a list of what you have collected, but they shunned it, so right now,….they cant piece it together, thats why whatever one wants to do, one should do it right.

 

Qtn: Nigeria is called the poverty capital of the world right now, would you say the measures taken by the Government in poverty alleviation are effective?

 

Ans: Unfortunately they ‘re not, perhaps our leaders are too poor in their own spirit that they do not understand poverty, and how to alleviate it, especially when you see their open display of wealth and power, this is poverty of spirit. Its so ingrained, so they dont know what were talking about. You cant say that youre eradicating poverty, and your poverty indices is going higher and higher every day, about 95 million Nigerians are in extreme poverty, and recently the United Nations brought another indices that talks about multi-dimensional poverty, which means that even if you have money to feed, because you earn N18,000 from government, but can you access basic services after eating? Like, can you access medical services, security, can children go to schools were they will actually learn something? So you cant just say weve given them Trader Moni, they eat, yes and then what? Its not the way out at all, in fact were not yet on the way. All those mediums are scams (N-POWER) when they started N-Power, I wrote an article in the Premium Times, I said “Fraud Alert, Cut it now” then I heard recently that they sacked about 2500 people from N-Power, see its a very big scam. Eradication of poverty in this country is yet to begin and it should be fairly easy.

 

Qtn: Can you work with this government, perchance you get the opportunity?

 

Ans: I probably will do it for Nigerians, not because I haven’t lost respect for Buhari but that can always be found back. But it is also dependent on the area: Budget is an area I’ m very particular about. I’ ve done extensive analysis, comparing budget of different African countries like Algeria, South Africa, and Egypt and then comparing with Nigerias budget. So perhaps, yes I would but they wouldnt (give such opportunity). I was talking with Kingsley Moghalu sometime ago. I was hearing that they approached him only to find out that he was actually not approached. I felt why? Thats Kingsley, he is older than some of us, he is strong in his own forte as well, and why would you not be able to approach someone like that? So this winner-takes-all approach is a terrible attitude. Certainly we are going to watch out how all this pans out. Four years is a short time and before you know it, it will be over but I think that also, you look at the mentality behind the kind of people they chose to serve in government, it is another red flag to say that one should be careful. Whatever comes, we will consider it on case by case basis for Nigeria.

 

 

Qtn: Have you started planning in earnest 2023?

 

Ans: No, I will not. I will most likely not. For several reasons, the first is, I made a promise that I would only run for presidency once. The second reason is that it is really not about the power, I’ m not seeking the power by all means. The third is that it is really a once in a lifetime experience. Running through this country, I went through all the dangerous places, Talata Mafara in Zamfara State, very spooky place, you know, even the citizens of that state are afraid. They kidnap and kill people there every day. I went as far as Yobe state by road. The topography is crazy. You will see a lot of people who look like Mandikas. You also see people who are like Tuaregs, Arabs and so on. The picture there is crazy. Conflicts in that region can be internationalized very easily. They close most of the roads by 5PM or 6PM till the next day. I went through all of those places. I went down to the south east and they have their own issues too. You can run into anything there. I went to the South West which has become increasingly unsafe. I dont think I will like to put myself through that again. Why? Because I put myself at risk for nothing. What you can see is that the country doesnt value people like us. If I got ill today, I will have to run around myself to sort myself out. Meanwhile I pay my taxes, while the people in government spend as much as they want on themselves. I did say I will run once and leave the space for someone else. In my idealism, if I had my way, in my party, I would suggest that someone from the southeast should run the next time. I would suggest to this country, if we had statesmen left that just as they rallied behind the South-west in 1999 they should also try to bring up Igbo men and let us choose from between them to try and heal the wounds. But I’ m not sure we are trying to heal the wounds.

 

 

Qtn: How do you spend your so called free time?

 

Ans:  I try to as much as possible get about two hours each day. I like watching old movies during my free time. I buy my movies. But I’ m actually a bit out of time because DVDs are disappearing and people watch movies on Netflix. It gives me concern and a bit of sadness but I think its better if they see things like this, like real books and DVDs. I love history a lot so I want to watch something that has the setting of 1920s like when America was passing through the great depression. I mean, that is it for me.

 

Qtn: You say you won’t be running again. Beyond running for president, how will you be of ser
vice to Nigeria?

 

 

Ans: In doing what I do, getting involved in the public space. I’m a columnist, I write regularly. Thats how, I think. Im in the business of recruiting people to express themselves. Nigerians love to worship things, on twitter people were saying, Tope, you and Sowore should come together oo dont wait till 2022. I said you nko? A lot of people want to hide their head under someone. Let us find the superstar in ourselves. Among those people you think are nobody is the next generation. If you look carefully there is someone who will shape the system. In the bible there are so many stories of people who were nobodies rising to the top.